logansrogue: (Charlie Hah No)
[personal profile] logansrogue
There's this thing on Snopes they call "glurge". It's gooey-feel-good stuff that, at its heart, doesn't live up to the promise. It's the sort of thing that's supposed to make you smile and have hope for the human race. Chicken Soup for the Soul, etc. Something never seems to ring true about it. It's nice, but like candy, it's missing some real substance.

One of those stories is "Paying it forward". Someone pays for their coffee, then says, "Hey, I'll pay for the coffee for the person behind me!" And then that person is so happy that THEY pay for the person behind them, and so-on and so forth for a few people. Let's break this shit down:

- The coffees are still paid for. Everyone is just paying for everyone else's coffee. They'd save each other the fuss if they just paid for their own friggin' coffee.
- What if the person behind them is having a real hoi-polloi, fruity-tutti bizarro double-frap-machi-cappi-fluffichino coffee that costs way more than a regular coffee? The karmic balance is then off kilter.
- How do they know what the coffee of the person yet to pay for their coffee is going to cost? That person hasn't ordered yet. What if their order is more than what KindlyPerson has put down?
- What if the person behind them didn't order coffee? What if they ordered a muffin?
- This story seems to ride on the fact that other people are paying for other people's coffees. What if someone can't afford to pay for anyone else's coffee, and they break the chain? Are they an asshole? The asshole who broke the chain?


Clearly, I overthink these things.

(no subject)

Date: 2010-06-29 04:22 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hercircumstance.livejournal.com
It's just a cheap way of feeling good about "doing something" when really you've done the least you could possibly do outside of not spending $4 on a cup of frou-frou coffee in the first place.

About as annoying as "buy this product you don't need and half a cent gets donated to x" when you don't need the overpriced gadget/landfill fodder in the first place and would be better off giving all that money to a worthy cause and not buying the THING at all. Then again people say the average joe needs "fun things like that" to get interested in "giving" at all. I suspect people really just need to grow up and, y'know, actually give. Likely it might hurt a little bit, but things that are worth while typically have a real price like that.

(no subject)

Date: 2010-06-29 10:54 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nicoli-dominn.livejournal.com
I always laugh my ass off when I see performing artists bragging about giving away a dollar from each $100+ dollar concert ticket to x charity/cause. When you break down the artist's take-home percentage, even after the costs of the show and the tour, they're often going home with hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not millions. (I'm of course speaking for the the artists who have outrageously priced tickets. Some artists are down-to-earth enough to let you go to their shows for between $20 and $50.)

Same thing with Starbucks' Ethos water. What's that? Five cents? Three cents? From a friggin' two-dollar bottle of water that cost a small fraction of those two dollars to manufacture and ship? That's a real half-assed way of "caring." I'd like to see those Starbucks CEOs take a month or three off from their jobs to go and build houses for Habitat for Humanity or something.

The thing about growing up for the average Joe is that it actually entails caring less about the world around hir year by year. In kindergarten, we're taught to share and care for selves and others, and by the time middle school comes around, it's already dog-eat-dog. Some people wake up in high school or college, but most stay completely self-absorbed. Many of those who learn to give and share once again are of the impression that all they have to do is write a big check to someone (or buy that overpriced Crappuccino).

(no subject)

Date: 2010-06-29 04:26 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] holly-go-noor.livejournal.com
There's some coffee shop in Japan where everybody orders and pays for a cup, and the next person in line does the same for the person behind HIM. And of course, the next person in line gets whatever the hell the person ahead of them ordered.

Kinda crazy if you ask me. I want my triple fat lardo cap with soy thanks.

(no subject)

Date: 2010-06-29 04:26 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] honorh.livejournal.com
Yeah, that one breaks down really quick. Okay, it's a nice thought, but kinda pointless. I'd sooner do something nice that has a point to it.

(no subject)

Date: 2010-06-29 04:45 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] vesper2000.livejournal.com
I think the problem comes in when, in this case the act of kindness of buying some stranger a cup of coffee, doesn't come from an actual impulse to do something altruistic, but a desire to join in with the rest of the herd, which makes the action pointless and empty.

(no subject)

Date: 2010-06-29 04:49 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] poeticalpanther.livejournal.com
Exactly so. I consciously embrace "Pay it Forward" as a personal urge to do good things for people, in the hope that they will, in turn, feel more inclined to do nice things for other people.

I like to think of it as casting good karmic buildup out into the world. I do it because there were many, many people who were involved in my being alive and happy as I am, at 44; by far the majority I will never encounter again, and can thus never pay them back.

So instead I pay it forward: I repay them as best I can, by giving out the good deeds they gave me.

I do agree, though, that the Snopes examples tend to be of a revolting and pointlessly self-congratulatory nature.

(no subject)

Date: 2010-06-29 11:16 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] logansrogue.livejournal.com
See, being generally nice to people and doing good things for the sake of doing them, that's beautiful, and I do it as much as I can (which is hard for me because I'm struggling on disability pensions, so most of my good deeds include being honest, helping people when I can and helping out with good causes an so forth). I am all for that.

It's just when certain good acts become viral, like this one, and there's a certain undercurrent to it that leaves me uncomfortable. I can't explain it.

(no subject)

Date: 2010-06-30 03:43 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] melalucci.livejournal.com
One time, I paid for my food at a drive-thru and said, "I'll also pay for the person behind me." That was fun. :)

(no subject)

Date: 2010-06-30 08:42 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] logansrogue.livejournal.com
If I had any disposable income, I would totally do that. I would also buy a jacket for the nice homeless guy that lives nearby. Sadly, I'm in debt.

(no subject)

Date: 2010-07-02 05:18 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] transcendancing.livejournal.com
This is also my idea of paying it forward. Giving the time and energy and understanding that people gave me once upon a time, to others. Making life a little more pleasant for someone just because.

(no subject)

Date: 2010-07-02 10:06 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] logansrogue.livejournal.com
Dude, you don't just pay it forward, you're a fucking walking lottery of karma and good vibes.

(no subject)

Date: 2010-06-29 10:43 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nicoli-dominn.livejournal.com
On the last, that would be kind of silly of them to be trying to buy their own coffee in the first place. I'd be wondering why zhe didn't just make it at home instead of going to an overpriced drive-through. But if zhe can afford to buy hir own coffee, zhe can maybe afford to buy someone else's instead. Unless that person is ordering for the entire office/soccer team.

I see your points, though. I think "paying it forward" sounds a lot better when visualized as a massage circle, each person massaging the person in front of hir.

(no subject)

Date: 2010-06-29 11:07 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] logansrogue.livejournal.com
I've never been very well off. Sometimes, ten to twenty cents can be the difference between me getting home on the train with a ticket and calling home desperate for a lift because I'm dead broke.

Sometimes, even poor people like to go for a coffee. Sometimes we can't just unthinkingly pay for whatever, we don't have the spare cash, we have to budget down to the last cent. But we still like to go to a nice cafe and have a proper cafe coffee.

There's a privilege of wealth in this tale that makes it an impossibility for some, and I was merely pointing it out.

(no subject)

Date: 2010-06-29 11:23 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nicoli-dominn.livejournal.com
I put "maybe" in there because I was aware of that often 10-20 cent margin. I've toed that margin myself, and often still do because my job sucks ass. I'm also the kind of person who feels silly even thinking about wanting a two-dollar coffee when it could possibly overdraw my account, or leave me stranded at work late at night. The expense and worth of that coffee truly varies depending on one's account balance and outlook, and I don't blame anyone for possessing a different outlook than my own in that regard.

In any case, I imagine that most people in that 10-20 cent margin would carefully calculate their budgets to make sure that cup of coffee really is affordable for themselves, which would make paying it forward to someone who wants the triple mocha latte with methamphetamine sprinkles kind of ridiculous, like you said. I certainly agree with you there. If anyone dared to call us assholes, I'd smack 'em.

(no subject)

Date: 2010-06-29 11:25 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] logansrogue.livejournal.com
Yeah, that was my point entirely. When I used to drink coffee, I often couldn't afford it, but sometimes, just sometimes, I went to a cafe with a friend and it was a nice occassion I put money aside for.

These days, my caffiene intolerance has made it so that all I ever drink when I go out is fruit juice or fruity soft-drinks.

I figured you probably knew where I was coming from. :-P

(no subject)

Date: 2010-06-29 05:58 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hotclaws.livejournal.com
Ugg,it's a mean version of this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random_act_of_kindness
This phrase used to be stencilled all over Manchester
Practice acts of random kindness and senseless acts of beauty..
The other is more of a commercial transaction, like buying indulgances.

Profile

logansrogue: (Default)
logansrogue

April 2017

S M T W T F S
      1
2345678
9101112131415
16171819202122
23242526272829
30      

Most Popular Tags

Style Credit

Expand Cut Tags

No cut tags